The Usefulness Of Limits
As I build the arenas for Qonquer, I find that I’m really enjoying the challenges of level design at this level again. I use Quake in it’s pure software form in the engine that id shipped. This means I have to worry about r_speeds and all of the fun that comes with that.
Quake can only do about 800 polygons before it starts dropping polys and you see entities flickering. It’s been a great challenge for me to design within this constraint again. I shell out an area with basic shapes and then start adding detail until the r_speeds monster slaps me on the wrist and says “enough!”. There’s a great feeling of satisfaction once you’re done tearing up an area and redesigning it so that it runs better and then that moment comes when you’re hovering at about 780 and you decide, “OK, that’s enough”. And you’re done.
I love it. Modern engines don’t care much about polygons anymore and throw 5,000+ triangle meshes around like they were nothing. It’s nice to get back to my roots. It’s fun and it keeps the mental wheels greased.
February 26th, 2008 at 11:45 am
This reminds me of the development of Duke3d, when someone said “hey, I wonder how this runs on the old 486 in the corner.” and of course it was abysmal. There is something to be said about efficiency and simplicity (though efficiency is hardly a positive in all things - efficiency in the marketplace is what brings us churned out games on an annual basis with no platform for replayability, as the goal is the initial sale and all experiences past that are not considered). I enjoy the gameplay of the UT series, but 2k3/4 maps sometimes hit a level of detail that was merely distraction. Yes, you can have that many polys, but really, do I need that many gratings, pipes and chain link fences on every surface?
I think that is why early Quake and Q2 maps just look great to me, the geometry you see is the geometry you play - but theres still room for detail in terms of touches, lighting, and texture.
The shots for Qonquer actually look more appealing than most contemporary games to me, as it has a telos so to speak in each aspect.
Either way, I made a news post on i3d mentioning Qonquer, which means community pressure to complete it, from the three people who go to the frontpage rather than directly to the forums!
February 26th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Hahaha … hey, thanks for the mention! I’m working on one last arena and then I’ll package it up for ridicule from the QuakeC community.
February 27th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
I take it that the mod is going to run on non-mac versions of Quake, yeah? Not that there’s anything wrong with using a Mac of course.
And Scarecrow, was calling Warren “Willem” in your news post some intentional reference I don’t get or just a brain typo?
The limits thing is interesting though, there’s definitely something to be said for encouraging simplicity in maps. Not necessarily from a polycount point of view but from a gameplay one, ie. keeping the player space simple and clean enough that basic movement is never an obstacle. Bioshock would be a good example of how not to do it, I was constantly bumping into walls and ledges and railings and boxes and other junk in that and it really brought the game down for me. Of course there’s limits to, umm, limits, you wouldn’t want to go overboard and end up with Raven’s “one big box” mapping style.
Gears Of War was actually quite interesting in that regard, while the car or chunk of concrete that you stuck your big magnetic soldier to was probably made up of more polygons than in an entire Quake level, from a gameplay perspective they were basically boxes. Once I realised that and started looking about I was struck by how basic the gameplay areas were, practically bordering on the retro and nobody noticed because of all that “next gen” paint. I suspect it probably had a lot to do with the gameplay being as strong as it was.
Not, I hasten to add, that I’m trying to be a suck-up here, I should probably diss Gear’s driving section or story or facial hair or whatever just to maintain my cranky image now.
February 27th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
“Willem” is the handle I use on Quake boards and such. That’s all. And it’s fine to call me that, I don’t care.
And good insight on Gears, you’re absolutely correct. When I first started on Gears, Cliff explained it to me by loading up a prototype level and flying high above. He looked straight down at it and said something like, “The cover system is basically a 2D platform game. You move from platform to platform”. And it’s true! It’s not obvious when you’re killing Locust but that’s what it does and it really makes the game click.
February 27th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
I refer to you as Willem since yeah, you use that on i3d and func, and I don’t know how separate you want your Quake work to be from your industry work. Though I did make a reference with the “newcomer” line.
I never did play GoW, as I don’t bother with consoles as the asking price is always too steep for my taste (this PC from 2002 still does what I need, though that has aided my curmudgeony tastes in regards to contemporary titles).
I think I just shy away from a certain amount of detail as I am used to in games… It not meaning anything. Clip brushes are used so extensively, I’d rather they just acknowledge that I’m in essentially a rectangle, and then it wouldn’t be so distracting from the actual gameplay (but sometimes I think that is the point).
I think the problem is, I’m largely happy with Quake, and where I am not happy with Quake, other titles have not filled that void, and most have actually been a step backward for me as a player. But thats the sort of topic that can easily annoy people, especially when they’re in the industry =)
If I have the time, when Qonquer is released I will give it a proper review; the CMS at i3d actually has a review system in place, its just not been really used.
February 28th, 2008 at 5:43 am
Geez, now there’s all this pressure on Qonquer.
It’s my first mod ever, don’t expect miracles. Heh.
February 28th, 2008 at 6:35 am
Well, mods typically from the i3d community have amazing coding (TAoV, Prydon Gate) and where they are lacking is maps. We already know that you can make great maps, so the fact that theres a mod to it that does more than add a variant of the Enforcer or whatnot changes things up a little bit.